Feat. Laura Kendrick from Cheeky Copy
THE EMAIL GROWTH SHOW EPISODE 221
Your website shouldn’t just exist to prove you’re in business – it should actively grow your business.
If you’ve ever wondered why your site looks good but doesn’t convert, this episode of The Email Growth Show will change the way you think about website strategy forever.
I sat down with Laura Kendrick, a UX copywriter and strategist who helps high-performing founders turn their websites into conversion machines. We talked about the small tweaks that make a big difference – from simplifying your calls-to-action to designing your homepage for cold traffic – and how clarity in your copy always beats cleverness.
Listen to this episode here:
** Read time: 6 – 7 mins | Listen time: 40 mins **
TL:DR:
What you’ll learn in this episode:
– Why your homepage needs to speak to cold traffic
– How to remove friction from your sales pages
– The difference between clear and clever copy
– And how to create a seamless journey that moves people from curious to converted…
The website problem no one talks about
Here’s what most entrepreneurs do:
They spend hours perfecting their color palette, tweaking their fonts, and writing clever headlines that sound good… but don’t actually sell.
Then they wonder why their site looks amazing but still feels like a digital business card – a static space that says “I exist” instead of “Here’s how I can help you.”
Laura calls this the “hang your shingle” mentality – that old-school idea of putting up a sign to prove you’re open for business.
And while it might make your business feel legitimate, it doesn’t bring in clients.
Your website should be more than a badge of credibility. It should be your hardest-working salesperson – guiding visitors from curiosity to clarity to conversion.
How to make your website work for you
According to Laura, the first step is understanding that not everyone who lands on your site knows who you are. Even if your warmest leads come from your podcast, email list, or bundles – your website still needs to speak to cold traffic.
That means when a total stranger finds you on Google, your homepage should immediately answer three things:
- Who you help
- What you do
- Why it matters
That first section of your homepage – known as “above the fold” – is your first impression. It’s where people decide if they’re in the right place.
Once they scroll, you can speak to the warmer leads – the ones who are already curious or ready to buy. Give them a clear next step, a reason to keep going, and an obvious path forward.
Your website isn’t a one-way announcement – it’s a conversation.
Clear over clever: The copy rule that changes everything
One of Laura’s mantras?
“Clear over clever, every time.”
It’s easy to fall in love with creative taglines or branded phrases (we all do it), but if your audience has to stop and think about what you mean – you’ve lost them.
People don’t have the context you do. They don’t know your backstory, your offer names, or your inside jokes.
So instead of relying on witty wordplay, make it clear what each offer actually is.
If you have multiple offers – like a mastermind, a membership, and a self-paced course – make sure those are labeled clearly. Use drop-downs, tabs, or buttons that say exactly what people can expect.
It’s not about stripping away your personality. It’s about making sure your brilliance is accessible.
Because clever might catch attention – but clarity converts.
Remove the friction…
Let’s talk about what really stops people from buying: friction.
Every extra click, every confusing button, every unnecessary step adds resistance between your audience and a sale.
If someone has to click five times before they reach your checkout, you’ve probably lost them by click three.
Laura’s rule? One clear call-to-action. One button. One goal.
If they’re on a sales page, the only job of that page is to sell that offer.
No distractions. No shiny links to blog posts or free resources.
Remove your navigation bar, skip the footer links, and get rid of your social icons. The more you keep them focused, the easier it is for them to say yes.
And if you’re using a platform like ThriveCart, keep your checkout simple.
It should look and feel like an extension of your sales page, not a completely new space. The fonts, colors, and copy should all match.
Every extra click costs conversions – and your goal is to make buying feel effortless.
Why this matters
When your website is strategic and clear, it doesn’t just “look legit.”
It:
- Converts visitors into clients 24/7
- Builds trust through consistency
- Reflects your growth and authority
- Frees up your time to focus on the work that lights you up
You don’t need to post more, shout louder, or add another platform.
You just need to make sure the home base of your business – your website – is working for you.
Because when your copy is clear and your strategy is strong, sales start to feel effortless.
Ready to grow without guessing?
I’ll personally review your visibility, offers, and email strategy, then send you a private video with a 3-step action plan to help you grow without burnout.
Book a $44 Business Breakthrough Session here!
Guest Spotlight: Laura Kendrick
Laura Kendrick is a UX copywriter and strategist – the go-to partner for high-performing founders who are thriving but ready to streamline and scale. Through her agency, Cheeky Copy Co., Laura helps business owners clarify their message, remove friction, and turn their websites into conversion machines.
Website: https://www.cheekycopy.co
Free Resource: https://cheekycopy.co/clarity-compass
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Full Transcript:
Kylie Kelly [00:00:00]:
Today I have a really exciting episode for you. I am chatting with Laura Kendrick now. Laura is the copywriter and strategic partner high performing founders call when their business is already thriving but has outgrown the patchwork systems that got them there. She is not only hilarious, she’s also the host of the Holistic Launch Summit and brings relatable, approachable humor and deep thinking to everything that she does. In this episode, we talked a lot about copywriting that converts how you can get your website to actually do the heavy lifting for you. And this is perfect timing, especially leading up to the good old Black Friday and the end of the year. So grab your favorite beverage, settle on in and get ready to learn how your website can start to do the talking for you. Let’s welcome Laura to the podcast.
Kylie Kelly [00:00:51]:
Are you a female business owner frustrated with battling the algorithm and looking for growth strategies that don’t involve awkwardly pointing or dancing online or throwing cash at paid ads? Welcome to the Email Growth Show. I’m your host, Kylie Kelly, visibility and email marketing strategist. I grew my email list from 0 to almost 10,000 subscribers in less than two years and the same is possible for you too. Are you ready to build your email list and start making more money in your online business? Let’s head into today’s episode. Laura, welcome to the Email Growth Show. I am so excited to have you today.
Laura Kendrick [00:01:28]:
Thank you for having me. I’m really excited to be here.
Kylie Kelly [00:01:30]:
We’ve done it, We’ve made it happen, right? This is like third time lucky, I think with the podcast. So I’m so excited for this conversation. Anyone that is joining us that doesn’t know Laura Kendrick, can you tell us a little bit about what you do and who you help?
Laura Kendrick [00:01:43]:
Oh man. You want me to talk about me? Yes, sure. So I am a UX copywriter and strategist who also does launches as well. And what that means is I spend my time in people’s websites and in their launches in a way, way that is looking at the full holistic picture and really looking at attracting the idealist, ideal clients and walking them gracefully and intentionally towards conversion.
Kylie Kelly [00:02:12]:
I think if we turn back time when we first met and you spoke to me a little bit about what, how you believe a launch should be. I think I was on the back of launching myself and I’d sent like some scrappy emails. I had no plan and you’re like, kylie, we need to talk. And I think it was for the membership at that time we had a look at the sales page and yes, you are a wealth of knowledge when it comes to all of that. I can attest to that.
Laura Kendrick [00:02:35]:
It’s. It’s fun. It’s like my nerd space. Like, it’s. It’s an interesting thing because a lot of copywriters will focus very much on the words and some will expand to the strategy. But there is definitely an element of looking at these things in this much broader way of how are people actually getting. Getting to these assets, in particular for this conversation to the website? How are they actually getting there? Where are they landing once they land there? Where do we want them to go? How do we actually turn this website into what it should be, a conversion machine, rather than what so many people treat it as, myself included. I’ve done this in the past where it’s a really.
Laura Kendrick [00:03:15]:
Just like a shingle. Like, I think of it as, like, going back and watching some of those old shows, like the Andy Griffith show, and, you know, like, you’re walking down the streets in Mayberry in the 1950s, and when people are open, they just literally hang their shingle of like, oh, this is the grocery store, this is the barber shop. And so many people treat their websites in that exact same way, where they’re just using it as a digital business card or hanging their shingle and it’s like, oh, I’m just supposed to talk about me? It gives me credibility that, yes, I really exist in this big, vast online space. I’m a real person with a real business. But then that’s it. And they’re wondering why their website doesn’t convert.
Kylie Kelly [00:03:53]:
It’s so true. And I remember, like, it makes you feel legit, right? Like, it’s the first step to, like, feeling like a legit business owner. So, like, even when I was a wedding photographer, I DIY Squarespace. Squarespace, that time website, I had, like, this Frankenstein of different templates and pages, and it did the job.
Laura Kendrick [00:04:10]:
That’s not what your website’s supposed to be.
Kylie Kelly [00:04:14]:
There’s more to it, but it made me feel legit, though. Like, it was this moment that I was like, I have this space. And then it’s only been, as I’ve gotten, I don’t know, more mature in my business. And the longer I’ve. I’ve gone, I’m like, oh, actually, the website can be way more than that, can be part of the strategy. It can do way more. So let’s. Let’s start there.
Kylie Kelly [00:04:35]:
Let’s talk to the person that is me five years ago that has a bit of a Frankenstein website. Let’s we say that’s not really doing anything for them. Like what should it be able to do? And where does somebody start?
Laura Kendrick [00:04:49]:
It’s such a good question and it’s like the crappiest answer that everybody hates. But it depends. But it really does because you have to think about your particular audience, your particular offers and it all just lands differently. So for instance, if you have a small offer, it might not need to be like if you have a. This example always comes to mind. But if it’s like a, a course on how to use a social media platform like Instagram or Threads or Facebook or LinkedIn or TikTok and currently I’m not young enough to for TikTok to come to my mind, but it is, that’s an easier funnel, right? Because you can be literally screaming from the rooftops on that particular platform about how amazing your product is. And really you just need people to click into like, you know, one click button and you can go and people will hand over $27 very, very easily. However, if you have a high ticket offer or if you have something like coaching or therapy or like something that’s done with you or done for you, where there has to be this trust built, where there’s going to be a higher exchange of money, if you will, or a longer term relationship and people really need to know whether or not this is the right fit, that’s a different ball game that you’re playing.
Laura Kendrick [00:06:13]:
So it really all depends on who is your audience, what are they feeling when they come across you, where are they coming across you? And like the thing is, is the answer to these questions can be different. So for instance, the listeners to this podcast, at the end of this podcast or right now, whenever in the show notes, there’s going to be a link to and I can give it now so you can go and see and think about it while I’m talking about it. But if you go to ww.cheekycopy, co clarity-compass, you are going to land on a landing page that has to do with what we’re talking about right now. It’s going to talk about getting clarity. And this landing page is for you because we’re having this conversation right now. So it has to do with what we’re talking about. You have some awareness of who I am, what I’m about, what Kylie’s about, what we’re talking about here. So you’re landing there with a certain level of buyer awareness and then you’re going to read that copy and decide if that is A good fit for you.
Laura Kendrick [00:07:21]:
And if it is, you’re going to plunk down your name and email and then in return you’re going to get this clarity compass and you’re going to get to explore. Right. However, if you are just searching on the Internet, copywriters, and I happen to be lucky enough to be number one in the Google searches, you know absolutely nothing about me. But why are you searching copywriters? So I have to think about that. And in thinking about that, you might end up landing on a blog post that’s answering your particular question about copywriters. Right. Or sales pages or website copy or something like that. So it all depends on how people are getting to your website, what they know about you and then what they need to know in order to step towards that conversion or your offer.
Laura Kendrick [00:08:11]:
And that can be a very different journey too. Like what offer are we talking about? What, what sale are you looking for? Who is this person? So there’s so many little nuanced things that we have to take into account when we’re thinking about the website and thinking about too in terms of it’s different based on how people are landing there and where do you want them to land? So where do you want this particular audience to land on your website? And what do they know when they’re already getting or when they’re getting there? And those are kind of those first questions you begin to ask when you’re thinking about your website.
Kylie Kelly [00:08:46]:
So do you think almost building the website for a cold audience? So I’m just imagining my own, right. So like if I’m giving people a direct opt in for a landing page for a sales page, things like that, normally they’re already a part of my world, right. They’re on my email list or they listen to the podcast or so that they already trust me to some degree.
Laura Kendrick [00:09:04]:
Right.
Kylie Kelly [00:09:04]:
They’re a bit warmer. But do you think then the other parts of your website. So I don’t know, homepage about page, services page, et cetera, et cetera. Is it better to almost design them with the cold audience in mind that does Google it and we get found.
Laura Kendrick [00:09:20]:
Yes, is the short answer to that question. But it’s done very thoughtfully. I actually just today had a call, like kind of the big reveal call with a client where I handed them the website and it was, it was really fun. I love those moments, they’re super fun. But we were talking about the path that they take and this person was a photographer. So another piece of that in this instance was we had to fold In a portfolio, right? Because we have to give those examples. Because nobody’s going to hire a photographer that you’ve never seen their work, right? So we think about the homepage. So if they land on the homepage, if they click there for however they got their cold audience doesn’t know who you are.
Laura Kendrick [00:09:58]:
What do we need them to know right out of the gate? And like that’s what we’re thinking about like from the start. What we refer to in the copy world is above the fold. So what’s the part of the webpage that they see first? They don’t have to scroll, move anything. That part that really pops up in that part. We are actually asking a lot of that part because we need them to feel seen, heard, so they belong and want to scroll more. So they feel like this person has something to offer me. And so in that little window of space we need to have this grabby, grab, grabby. And then if we’re thinking about that, then we also want to.
Laura Kendrick [00:10:39]:
This is the like crazy level that we put into thinking about your copy. And the strategy when you’re in my brain and also many of my friends brains too is that when you scroll down, then we also want to have a space for those fast action takers. So the people who are like sold or happen to land there when they do know a little bit about you. So we want a really quick button that sends them to the right place for that moment, whether it’s. And this has to do with the offer, are we booking a call? Are they applying, does it need to go to a price stack for something? And then we want to scroll down and have them feel even like deeply seen and heard where they are walking in and going oh, this person gets me. And then we might be going into, depending on the flow of things, we might be going then into like an offer suite a bit or perhaps it’s sending them to a portfolio. But you have to think about when you’re looking at this, of what do they know now? What do they need to know to be ready to move forward? And sometimes that’s on one page, sometimes it’s about clicking into maybe they need to go to the about page, maybe they need to go to the offer suite page, maybe they need to go to a particular blog post and then that blog post is going to then map them through to someplace else where they’re moving through. But thinking about what is that journey of thought process that enables this person to confidently know that not only are they in the right place, you’re the right person for them and this is the right offer for them.
Laura Kendrick [00:12:11]:
Or conversely, know that it’s not and click away so that we’re weeding out those people that are not the right people for us. Because that’s important too.
Kylie Kelly [00:12:21]:
So this is why we pay an expert. Can I personally say, because holy shit, that’s a lot of work figuring things out. I love this and I think I would love to ask, how do you figure this out? How do you get started? Like, is it going to talk to people and what happens? Or then what happens if you have more than one offer? What happens if you have more than one goal? They land on a homepage. I’ve got a mastermind, a membership. Who else knows what else I’ll have by the time this goes live? Because I like to throw things out all the time. Like, if you have more than one offer, then what do you do?
Laura Kendrick [00:12:47]:
So this is really like, that’s. So many people have more than one offer. Most people do. And it. If you have only one offer, really you kind of only need a sales page, right? Like you don’t really need a full website because a sales page does cover a lot of these pieces. So if you only have one offer, rock on with a one page website and most people can get away with that for longer than they think they can. But it also is, if you have more than one offer, then yeah, you have to have an offer suite in some way. And by the way, here’s another little facet of this in the copy world.
Laura Kendrick [00:13:19]:
Clear over clever. This is so important in marketing, in copy. And like, I hear you. Like, I have kitschy fun on brand names for, for my offers as well. I think it’s fun. Like you saw Clarity Compass, like, okay, there’s lots of things that are totally on brand, but when you look at the headings on the website, you can have the kitschy things. But if you have something like I have a course called Shh. AI wrote that.
Laura Kendrick [00:13:44]:
If you don’t know what that is, if I. You haven’t been on my email list, you have not gotten the, you know, all the information. You haven’t seen the sales page. And if you see that in a dropdown, you might be like, what the hell is this? And even if it’s, if it’s not in a dropdown, that really might be a. What is this? I don’t even know what this. Is this done with you? Is this like, is she creating a custom GPT? Is this a course? Is this coaching? What is this? So I Can put that under a heading of courses or offers, but it’s something that tells them like, what are they getting into? So that there’s clarity there. Because if it’s somebody who’s looking for done for you copy on my website, that’s going to send them to a dead end that they don’t want to be in. Right.
Laura Kendrick [00:14:27]:
But if it’s somebody who’s looking for a little bit of like, well, I’m trying to figure this out on my own, great. So now they know this is a course, this is something where I’m going to be learning on my own or you know, in a group setting or something like that. So clear, over clever every time. You can still have the kitsch. Just make sure that they can learn how to navigate it. If you have multiple offers, you can have multiple tabs, you can have it in an offer suite where maybe you have in essence that one page website vibe on the homepage and then there is a little like spot where there’s block in there and they can click a button that goes to the mastermind, they can click a button that goes to the, the membership, you know, they can click those buttons that go to those particular places and then they get more detail about that. But you’re giving them a little insight into where they’re going so they’re able to kind of see, well, I’m not in a mastermind space, so I want to go to the membership or maybe it’s a. I’m debating.
Laura Kendrick [00:15:24]:
So I’m going to click into both and see what happens here. The thing is, is to create really clear calls to action so that when somebody figures out they’re in the right space, they can walk that path very easily and very clearly. In the UX world, the user experience world, which is how I look at websites, I don’t build a website for like, like, I’m not gonna build your website, Kylie, with like. I just need to have like Kylie’s badge of honor. Almost like, you know, the scouting scarves where there’s all the little like badges of like, I learned how to row a bow. Great, fabulous for you. But your website shouldn’t be about that. It should be about the person who’s clicking in because that’s who we’re really talking to.
Laura Kendrick [00:16:02]:
So yes, we need to layer in credibility and about you so they know they’re in the right place, but it’s not really about you, it’s about them. And we really want them to understand that they’re in that right place and make it really easy. This is like key and the thing that most people miss. We want to make it really easy for the person who’s ready to plunk down their credit card to plunk down their credit card. So often we accidentally put up huge barriers and we want to remove as many of those barriers. And in the UX world, we call this friction. So we want to take away as much friction as possible and make it smooth and easy for them to go, here’s my money. Please take it.
Laura Kendrick [00:16:44]:
I have to say that I can sometimes be one of those very rare, fast action buyers. And I find it so frustrating when I’m like, I just want to give you my damn credit card.
Kylie Kelly [00:16:52]:
Yes, I’m with you.
Laura Kendrick [00:16:53]:
That.
Kylie Kelly [00:16:54]:
So what’s some of the friction that you see that’s most common? Like, what are some of the mistakes.
Laura Kendrick [00:16:58]:
People make having to click through to a thousand things? So not having, like, when it’s the call to action is, you know, purchase here, buy here, apply here, it should go right to that thing. Like, the expectation should be in place. So if I click buy here and then it takes me to a sales page and I have to find another button that takes me to a price stack, and then that price stack finally takes me to a checkout. At that point, you have now asked for the sale. I mean, how many times did I list? Was it four or five times? Every time you ask for a sale, the chances of them clicking diminishes. So we want to make sure that when we’re finally asking for that sale, we’re actually doing the things like there. It’s as close to as, like, right there as possible. In an ideal world, that checkout honestly is embedded right in the page.
Laura Kendrick [00:17:45]:
It’s not always possible, and that’s fine. But in an ideal world, it’s right there. So they’re just like, go. And that one button push is the one that’s confirming their credit card information or confirming that they want to put in the application with you.
Kylie Kelly [00:18:01]:
Mm. And so I’m just thinking about this with my own website now. So with my sales pages on Showit and I have my ThriveCart checkouts I could easily embed. I’ve never thought to do that. It’s almost like the ThriveCart is like a mini sales page that they’re reading the same information again. Right. Fiction. I can see that now is friction.
Kylie Kelly [00:18:17]:
So, like, way better to embed the checkout in the actual sales page. Oh, interesting.
Laura Kendrick [00:18:22]:
But if you can’t do that, which you can’t always do, that not all platforms will let you do that. And that’s okay if you can’t do that. One of the like key things is to make sure they look the same so that they know like the verbiage is the same, the colors are the same, the fonts are the same, the basics there are the same so that they know they actually went like it. It feels seamless. It feels like oh, I’m in the right place. It’s that kind of that well known like pat on the shoulder of like yes, you did this correctly. And we want to keep them moving so making that as easy. So having like if you go from a full on sales page to like Yeah, I have ThriveCart too and you can create a whole sales page in there too.
Laura Kendrick [00:19:05]:
Don’t do that. If you have a full sales page on your website, don’t click them over to another full sales page where they have to scroll again because that is friction. So yes, ideally it is in the website if possible. But if not, if you have to have a button and you have the sales page on your website, you want them to go to the a simple version of the checkout and it doesn’t ha like it can have some copy on it, it can have the bullets of like just a reminder refresher of this is what you’re getting, this is what you’re signing into. Here’s another little testimonial but have it like you know, be off to the side or you know what I mean, like just a little bit versus having to scroll through a massive thing to get to the bottom again because that’s going to, that’s going to turn people off.
Kylie Kelly [00:19:50]:
And this is good news because really when we think about it, we’re doing twice as much work building out that second thing in thriveguard when we actually don’t need to. That’s really exciting. Talk to me about call to action buttons because when you were saying that I was like, oh my gosh, I’m so guilty of this because I’ll have like by now 300 times on a page and it’s like anchored down to like different places instead of it being to the checkout to buy now. So like what should somebody do best practice with call to action buttons.
Laura Kendrick [00:20:17]:
I mean if you’re getting into a sales page, there should only ever be one call to action on sales page ever. And that is Buy Now. Like there should not be a like in the middle of the sales page. We’ll sign up for this lead magnet. Your sales page is at the Very end of your sales funnel. These people know who you are. They are warmed up. If they’ve clicked in, they are interested.
Laura Kendrick [00:20:35]:
They are just deciding whether or not now is the time or not, whether or not this is the offer or not. They don’t need anything else other than to land into this one single offer. Do not take them anywhere else. Remove the header, the footer. Get rid of your social links. You don’t want them going to your social media when they are, like, on that final step. Like, oh, my God, no, there should. And also there should not be like a highlighted space for like, SEO purposes where you’re sending them to a blog post to.
Laura Kendrick [00:21:04]:
For them to understand what this word means. They’re in your world. They’re at the end of the funnel. They should know what that word means. And if they don’t, they will Google it on their own. Don’t do that. One call to action only on a sales page. And it should be to the checkout or apply or whatever that endpoint is.
Laura Kendrick [00:21:20]:
Yes, you can have. Some websites will enable you to have, you know, 50 buttons and only one price. That stack, which, if you’re unfamiliar, the price stack is the space where you’re saying, this is how much it is. Let’s go. You can have every single button go to that anchor point and I’m sure you’ve seen it. If you don’t have it on your own, where you click the button at the very top and it just zips down to the bottom to that price tag and says, here’s how much it is. That’s great. If you can do that, do that.
Laura Kendrick [00:21:50]:
If you can’t do that, have every button go to the checkout. And if you can anchor to that one spot, then every button on the page that feels relevant goes to that anchor point. And then that one button goes to the checkout or the checkout is embedded right there. And the copy on those buttons can and really should vary, but they should all be clear. They should all say what is like, in some way, what they can expect to happen next. And like, yes, they don’t all have to be so clear that it’s like, purchase here, buy now. Like, those can be used. But it.
Laura Kendrick [00:22:27]:
They can say things of, I don’t know. For me, it could be off the top of my head. It could be something like, I want better copy or I want my sales page to convert or I want my website to convert. Those could be. That’s copy. That’s clear. Honestly, I would take away the. Some of the that verbiage to make it shorter.
Laura Kendrick [00:22:43]:
But that is also clear they know what’s going to happen next. And it, it’s not something that’s like, like trying to think of really bad call to action copy and it’s not coming to my mind of like, I don’t know, something of like. And my daughter just popped into my head of like sales pages are like princesses, you know, like what? Nobody’s going to know what that means and nobody’s going to click that button. Or if they do, it’s out of morbid curiosity of like, what happens when I do this. Making sure that they’re all clear, making sure it does exactly what it says it’s going to do. And you can even create what we call in the UX world microcopy and put it underneath the.
Kylie Kelly [00:23:17]:
The button.
Laura Kendrick [00:23:18]:
Small little sentence that is very clear on what’s going to happen in the next step and that immensely clarifies for people and makes it. That removes actually a ton of friction because one of the reasons people won’t do the things is because they’re not sure what’s going to happen when they do.
Kylie Kelly [00:23:34]:
Oh my God, so much, so much good stuff there. I love that. Thank you. Okay, so let’s think about the call to action buttons on let’s say the homepage. Right? Let’s go back to websites away from sales pages. I could talk to you about sales pages until I’m blowing the face back to the website. How do we figure out that journey? So, like thinking about the homepage, putting ourselves into the customer’s state of mind when they’re landing on our homepage, how do we figure this out? How do we know where they should go? When should they go to the about page? When should they go to the services page? Like what, what’s that look like?
Laura Kendrick [00:24:04]:
Honestly, it’s in having clarity on those things, which is, you know, clarity compass. Yay. Thought about that.
Kylie Kelly [00:24:10]:
Well, got something for you.
Laura Kendrick [00:24:13]:
Yeah, right. Ding, ding, ding. No, but it is about having. No, having a really clear understanding of who your audience is, what you want them to do, what their pain points are like once you have your messaging dialed in, your brand voice dialed in, your voice of customer dialed in. These things make it so this journey is really easy because you understand who it is that you’re calling in, you understand what they need to hear and you also, if your messaging is really dialed in, you also know where they are on their awareness journey, when they’re clicking in the page. And yes, we put elements in for that Cold audience who happens to just stumble upon it because, I don’t know, they mistyped something. But in doing that, like, we want to be crystal clear on what we do and who we do it for. And in a way that is not about you, it’s not stroking your ego.
Laura Kendrick [00:25:04]:
It’s not making an offer with the things of like, well, when you get into this offer, you get 1, 2 and 3. Like, you get this many calls, you get this, this and this. And people do want to know that, usually right at the bitter end of their buying decision. But first they want to know that they’re in the right place. They want to know that this person gets them. They want to know their pain is seen and understood and that their goals and desires are like, that’s what this person is aimed at. Because there are a hundred percent people out in the world who are looking for somebody who can just write a piece of button copy without any thought. That just makes it clever and funny.
Laura Kendrick [00:25:51]:
And like is on brand. Great. I’m not their copywriter. The person who is like, I want this to hum. Like, I want to not have to think about this. I want this to be a strategy. I want these conversions to happen. And not like, I don’t want it piecemealed anymore.
Laura Kendrick [00:26:07]:
I don’t want it stitched together, duct taped together. Like, I want a whole picture that makes sense for me. My business, that’s me. They’re in the right place and my website will tell them that.
Kylie Kelly [00:26:19]:
I love that advice. And I think again, the clearer we can get about who we’re trying to serve, and we’ve talked about this before, but like that evolves too. So I’m guessing as that evolves, it’s updating the copy. Right. It’s not this one and done type thing. It’s going to be a living, breathing part of your business, right?
Laura Kendrick [00:26:34]:
Yeah. And it doesn’t, it doesn’t have to be totally rewritten without, you know, it doesn’t have to be this big whitewashed thing of like, oh, I need a totally new website. Sure, every once in a while that’s fun. Or your offers change so much or you’re like, I just need a different vibe in those moments. Yeah, it might need a total rewrite, but sometimes it’s just a tweak. It might even be as simple as like a little bit of a headline shift or just a little bit of like the pain point that we’re really dialed into here is no longer the right one. For instance, I actually, this is something that I Totally. Just repackaged.
Laura Kendrick [00:27:11]:
One of the first VIP days I ever came out with was a messaging VIP day. And the way I was talking about it, I realized was calling in very new business owners, which was super fun and I really enjoyed working with them. But also the funnel to from that to done for you copy was going to be years, which was not ideal for me in my business, and also who I wanted to work with. I was stepping into this holistic space, which is a totally different group of people than new people are just trying to get their footing. When you’re starting to think in strategy, you’re starting to talk further down the line. And so I had abandoned this VIP day almost entirely and just had whipped it out for clients who I was already working with, who I felt it would really help. And it was super fun. But now I’ve shifted it into this package with something else with other things involved.
Laura Kendrick [00:28:07]:
And it’s in essence, the same thing, but it’s been packaged with all these other things. And I’m talking about it in a very different way. It’s the same offer, but it’s being spoken of in a way that actually resonates with my ideal client now and not necessarily somebody who just bought that domain or hasn’t even bought that domain and has just started an Instagram account and is just trying to figure out what do I really want to do. This is not necessarily the right offer for them.
Kylie Kelly [00:28:37]:
Yeah. And that just goes to the power of the messaging and knowing your ideal client. Right. And the tweaks you might need to make along that journey. I love that. Do you know something funny? So I have Hot Jar set up for my website. I love. I’m a nerd.
Kylie Kelly [00:28:49]:
I love data. I love heat tracking. I want to see where those people are clicking. I want to see what’s happening. Like, I’ll sit there with a cup of coffee and watch those replays for, like, way too long. That I should admit. But do you know what’s funny? Is that often I’m like, what the.
Laura Kendrick [00:29:01]:
What the.
Kylie Kelly [00:29:02]:
Do I do with this information now? I’ve been watching this. I see where they’re clicking, I see where they’re dropping off, but I don’t know what to do with that information. Is that when we should come to someone like you, like, what do we do with that then? Like, how do we figure this out?
Laura Kendrick [00:29:16]:
That is such good information to have. And even the clients I have that don’t have those things in place, we put them into place. We. We create dashboards. We put Hotjar into place because we want to see it afterwards. Because there is always, no matter where you are in your business, there is always an element of, in the common vernacular, throwing spaghetti at the wall. In the copy UX and strategy world, we like to refine or call it AB testing, but it is, there’s always an element of play because that’s what it is. And you are experimenting and seeing what lands.
Laura Kendrick [00:29:52]:
And that’s how you can tell. Oh, first of all, you can tell is the thing landing in general. You can also tell how, like, what kind of buyer type you have. You can also tell where are they on their awareness journey. Because if you have, if everybody who comes to your website is clicking that like, you know, headlined button and actually converting, it’s like, oh, damn, they don’t need a whole lot. Like, what I’m doing elsewhere is closing this gap and they don’t need much. Or I have a lot of people who are like really quick decision makers. So maybe the copy on your website can be diminished or your sales page can be very much simplified because you don’t have the people who need all the information.
Laura Kendrick [00:30:33]:
I don’t know, like, we would have to look at all that information, but it can also be an element of like, well, that really didn’t land with them. So like, that’s a, that’s a dead zone over there. So maybe we need to either shift it, play with the messaging or maybe retire the offer. I don’t know the answer there either, but we would have to look at it and kind of assess it against who your audience is. But yes, that is when you are at the point where you are interested in data or at least have the like, red flags of like, I should be interested in data or looking at my data. That’s a point where it’s like, okay, now it’s time to bring in somebody who really understands the strategy here to help me game plan this and figure out how can we tip the scales. Because before that you’re probably still in a fairly significant like feeling it out phase and we all have to move through that. To be fair, we never fully move out of it, but we have to move through the like, hardcore.
Laura Kendrick [00:31:37]:
I mean, we’re just taking the colander of spaghetti and like chucking it all at the wall and going, what’s working? And then getting into the like, okay, I saw those two pieces stuck. So now we’re dealing with the details of like, how can I make them stick longer? And you know, and you’re starting to pull play in that nuance and the kind of minutiae of it all. And once you’re getting into that, like, you have this offer that is. And I kind of hate the. The terminology, but you have a proven offer and you’re feeling good about your audience and you’re. You’re really understanding them, that’s the time to really start to dial this in. Because that’s when your website should really and truly no longer be the thing that’s like, look, I have pretty pictures of myself. And yes, I’m for real.
Laura Kendrick [00:32:22]:
And sure, Google knows who I am, but the only way people really convert is when I’m in a launch cycle or I actively tell them, you must buy now. Like, your website can very easily be working literally while you’re sleeping behind the scenes. Like, in your case, Kylie, being in Australia, like, a huge chunk of your audience is in North America, and it’s like, your website should actively be selling while you’re sleeping.
Kylie Kelly [00:32:48]:
It’s so funny. Like, I always used to think that was bullshit. When people talk about, like, oh, I was in the Bahama is having a pina colada and I just made this much money and I was like, oh, whatever. Like, what a work. But part of that, when you do have things like your website, like your email list, when you’ve built up that audience, when you have evergreen offers, like, there is this part in business that actually gets to be easy. And I love the fact that you said about throwing spaghetti at the wall and then you caught a play, and I was like, yes, because it’s not a bad thing. It is a stage that everyone goes through. And a lot of people, I hear like, oh, I don’t want to just throw spaghetti at the wall.
Kylie Kelly [00:33:20]:
I’m like, why not have a. Have a fucking food fight? Like, it’s fun. Like, throw it out. What happens? And that’s how we figure it out, right?
Laura Kendrick [00:33:26]:
Like, it really doesn’t go away because, like, here’s the thing. I decided first that I wanted to work with a different clientele. Like, I wanted it to shift because I wanted to work more deeply with my clients. So I didn’t want to have to, you know, for financial reasons and energy reasons. I didn’t want to have to work with 50 clients in a month because that means no client can have my full attention. I can’t do a deep dive. I’m stressed about client acquisition, money, all the things, and it’s like, I don’t want to be there. I love deep diving.
Laura Kendrick [00:33:59]:
I love looking at the strategy, at the numbers at the words, at the messaging. That’s where I live and thrive and I love deep long term relationships. Like I am that person who I don’t want to go to dinner with 50 people and have a whole lot of small talk. I want to go to dinner with one person and like, understand your backstory, the intimate details of your relationship with your partner and like how you parent and you know, what’s your blood type? Like that’s where I live and love. And so in order to do that I have to shift my packaging. And so I understood that first. I understand because I’m not fully there in, in this particular moment. I understand the long term goal and where I want to live and also understand that that may shift because I may get feedback that’s like, maybe I don’t like that client in the long run, but I understand where I’m headed.
Laura Kendrick [00:34:53]:
And with that, now I’m playing like I repackaged the VIP day and the offers into a different framework and into not a framework into a different package and a different offer with different messaging aimed at different people’s issues, problems, pain points, goals, where they are. And that’s resonating with people and that is aiming at this space. So like I started in one space, but to be quite honest with you, that offer pack like set up may last, it may not, I don’t know. And so I’m still playing with this. Like I have my North Star and I’m aiming there, but within this, like, I know who I’m talking to, I know what I want, I know how I want to work with people. Now I’m playing within that space rather than I want to write copy for people. And I have no idea what that looks like or who that is or what I’m going to specialize in. And like, like, let’s just see what I like to do.
Laura Kendrick [00:35:48]:
That phase I moved out of and moved into the, like, these are the things that call my name. This is where I want to live. Now let’s play in the how do we get the right thing, to work with the right people in the right way. That feels good for me and my people.
Kylie Kelly [00:36:01]:
Yeah, I love that. And I think then when we are open to play in those different parts of our business, as that journey kind of continues, when we know that that’s part of how we get to do business, that is the way that we get there is by playing, is by testing, trying new things. It just takes the pressure off that one fucking thing working right, like, because then we can throw something out there and be like, oh, well, that didn’t land. Okay, let’s do something else. Like, I think so often, especially when people are new to business or perhaps perfectionists, perhaps, whatever the thing is, like, there’s so much pressure for that one thing to work and then it doesn’t work and then it’s a complete mind, right? So I think knowing that, like, okay, we get to play, some things won’t work, some things will. We might not even like it when we get there, who knows? But let’s play and have fun and try and figure this out. And I think that’s why I like business so much, is because I love the puzzle. I love the puzzle pieces.
Kylie Kelly [00:36:51]:
I love not seeing the COVID but trying to figure out where the fuck they go. Like, I love that. So, yeah, I love that you shared this because I think it just gives all of our listeners some permission to play, which is so important.
Laura Kendrick [00:37:02]:
Permission to abandon a piece of the play if it doesn’t work for you. Like, I think that sometimes there’s too much pressure put on. Is the income coming in, is the, like, is this landing with the clients? And like, yes, that stuff is important. We can’t, you know, eat hopes and dreams. But even if you find something that really works for a while and if it stops feeding your soul permission to play and shift in a different direction and be like, not my thing anymore and let it go. Because I think that’s an important facet of all of this too, that we’re sometimes so focused on the client, which we should be. But there also has to be an element of like, what about your energy? What about your output? What about where your heart sings and living in that space too, because that’s where this becomes amazing, is where that Venn diagram crosses of where you are in your full joy and your clients are sitting here going, yes, I need more of this in my life, so stay in that space.
Kylie Kelly [00:38:02]:
Yes, yes. I mean, I think I’m a pretty good example of that. Like, I pivot. I pivot a lot. And you know, I to it like with the membership, I built it up to be this incredible, you know, I had 240 members at some point and then I started to resent it because I was on Zoom all the time and I didn’t have capacity and I couldn’t go deep and I was giving support, but it was a pretty light surface of support for that many people and I didn’t want to build a team. So it’s like also having that bravery, I guess, to be able to be like, ah, this isn’t working anymore. I’m choosing to do something different and then going after that. Right?
Laura Kendrick [00:38:38]:
Yeah. Permission to burn the fucker down when you’re done.
Kylie Kelly [00:38:41]:
I love that. Oh my gosh, Lauren, this has been so good. Thank you so much for sharing so much with us. I have loved this conversation. I know our listeners would too. Can you please share with us again that URL for the Clarity Compass?
Laura Kendrick [00:38:53]:
Yes, it is cheeky copy. Co Clarity dash compass.
Kylie Kelly [00:38:59]:
Amazing. I will put the link in the show notes of course. But yeah, thank you again for being here.
Laura Kendrick [00:39:05]:
Yeah, it was super fun. Thank you.
Kylie Kelly [00:39:07]:
Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of the Email Growth Show. I hope you found valuable insights into the next steps you can take to grow your email list and boost your business without relying on social media or paid ads. If you enjoy this episode, please take a moment to rate and review the show and share it with others. Your feedback helps me reach more female entrepreneurs just like you who are ready to say goodbye to social media and and leverage email marketing to grow their business and make a bigger impact. Thank you so much for listening and I’ll see you in the next episode.
